A fault was found in the list of ISP's

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A fault was found in the list of ISP's

Postby Support.scf.dk on Thu Sep 15, 2005 7:17 am

hey all sorry for the long waiting time...
I found some faults in the Ip list of the ISP's...
It seems that some ips are cross reffrenced...
and i havent had the time to correct it...
So i just wanted to hear... shall i post the DB for download or shall i finnish it first and then post it for DL??????

Let me know :wink:
Support.scf.dk
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Postby Teo on Thu Sep 15, 2005 12:29 pm

This summer (jully and august) some big europeans providers (france, italia, GB, and others) have amalgamated their services and ip networks.
Then your datas need some updates.

In europe, it's forbidden by RIPE services to retrieve, store and use datas from whois and geo ip european provider databases (see their copyrights).
How do you have retrieve them without to use traditional tools ?
Teo
Expert
 

Ones again...

Postby Support.scf.dk on Thu Sep 15, 2005 2:43 pm

Teo please do register or leave... no further information for you untill you do so...

And Teo, Y are u against this... ?
Support.scf.dk
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Postby Teo on Thu Sep 15, 2005 3:32 pm

Done.

RIPE the european IP info providers forbid to use their datas to build an geo ip or whois database (see copyrights).

How do you retrieve your datas with your tools without to use this provider ?
Teo
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Easy...

Postby Support.scf.dk on Fri Sep 16, 2005 12:54 am

I have one command for you NSLOOKUP
And combine that with this http://www.sarangworld.com/TRACEROUTE/s ... hp3#ipaddr
Then its easy... but you also need some research in the way you find and ISP...
I dont nessesary need RIPE to do so... and yes i am familiar with the copyright of Ripe...

But in fack the Global DNS table has not be copyrighted.
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Postby Teo on Fri Sep 16, 2005 9:07 am

Lol
Sarangworld project is an old project from 2000.
40% of them city adresses are false because never updated.

In 2000 you had 1 or 2 big provider by country, now you have 4 or 5 big (and more smaller) by country. Then you have now a lot of new extansion names in your tracert report.

With all tranfert and aglomerate operations, a lot of country and city has moved too.

For example, 60% (minimum) of the france part of this Sarangworld list are false today.

If you use a simple tracert and these Sarangworld datas, then you will corrupted this hostip community database when you'll update it.

I ask at the admin to avoid to update these wrong datas.
Teo
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Fine...

Postby Support.scf.dk on Mon Sep 19, 2005 9:51 am

Ill just keep the DB for myself... it works fine from my server... and so far the result is 100% correct...

So Teo its now up to you to make an ISP DB... because people want it...
So lets see what you come up with..
Support.scf.dk
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Postby Teo on Mon Sep 19, 2005 11:22 am

Tracert give these data :

traceroute to hostip.com (198.64.153.233), 30 hops max, 40 byte packets
1 FastEthernet6-0.civ-service1.Canberra.telstra.net (203.50.1.65) 0.241 ms 0.193 ms 0.241 ms
2 GigabitEthernet3-0.civ-core2.Canberra.telstra.net (203.50.10.129) 0.844 ms 0.717 ms 0.732 ms
3 GigabitEthernet2-2.dkn-core1.Canberra.telstra.net (203.50.6.126) 1.01 ms 1.007 ms 0.896 ms
4 Pos4-0.ken-core4.Sydney.telstra.net (203.50.6.121) 5.106 ms 5.108 ms 4.992 ms
5 10GigabitEthernet3-0.pad-core4.Sydney.telstra.net (203.50.6.86) 5.269 ms 5.296 ms 5.156 ms
6 10GigabitEthernet2-2.syd-core01.Sydney.net.reach.com (203.50.13.38) 135.141 ms 206.316 ms 6.67 ms
7 i-7-0.syd-core02.net.reach.com (202.84.221.90) 5.557 ms 5.649 ms 5.473 ms
8 i-0-0.wil-core02.net.reach.com (202.84.144.101) 153.693 ms 153.532 ms 153.558 ms
9 sl-gw28-ana-10-0.sprintlink.net (144.223.58.221) 154.668 ms 154.527 ms 154.519 ms
10 sl-bb21-ana-11-0.sprintlink.net (144.232.1.29) 154.673 ms 154.556 ms 154.557 ms
11 144.232.9.202 (144.232.9.202) 154.999 ms 155.041 ms 155.003 ms
12 xe-0-1-0.r20.lsanca03.us.bb.verio.net (129.250.2.8) 155.185 ms 155.227 ms 155.202 ms
13 p16-1-1-3.r21.dllstx09.us.bb.verio.net (129.250.4.197) 187.766 ms 209.982 ms 213.532 ms
14 p16-0-3-1.r20.asbnva01.us.bb.verio.net (129.250.5.35) 224.726 ms 224.665 ms 224.632 ms
15 mg-1.c00.stngva01.us.da.verio.net (129.250.28.202) 241.044 ms 224.754 ms 224.677 ms
16 161.58.157.61 (161.58.157.61) 224.787 ms 224.797 ms 224.656 ms
17 198.64.153.233 (198.64.153.233) 224.962 ms 224.803 ms 224.788 ms


How do you retrieve the ISP name from only a tracert command without the RIPE forbidden european databases ?

Here you can find verio.net the host but not the full name.

how do you retrieve the good city name and country with the old and not updated Sarangworld project without to use the RIPE forbidden european databases ?

I'm curious to know that to use these method me too.

Can you give more details on your methods for the community ?

You want to apply a big update at the database, then without to corrupt the database with wrong datas it will be good to check your methods.
Teo
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Postby bfolkens on Mon Sep 19, 2005 2:37 pm

Teo wrote:Tracert give these data :

traceroute to hostip.com (198.64.153.233), 30 hops max, 40 byte packets
1 FastEthernet6-0.civ-service1.Canberra.telstra.net (203.50.1.65) 0.241 ms 0.193 ms 0.241 ms
2 GigabitEthernet3-0.civ-core2.Canberra.telstra.net (203.50.10.129) 0.844 ms 0.717 ms 0.732 ms
3 GigabitEthernet2-2.dkn-core1.Canberra.telstra.net (203.50.6.126) 1.01 ms 1.007 ms 0.896 ms
4 Pos4-0.ken-core4.Sydney.telstra.net (203.50.6.121) 5.106 ms 5.108 ms 4.992 ms
5 10GigabitEthernet3-0.pad-core4.Sydney.telstra.net (203.50.6.86) 5.269 ms 5.296 ms 5.156 ms
6 10GigabitEthernet2-2.syd-core01.Sydney.net.reach.com (203.50.13.38) 135.141 ms 206.316 ms 6.67 ms
7 i-7-0.syd-core02.net.reach.com (202.84.221.90) 5.557 ms 5.649 ms 5.473 ms
8 i-0-0.wil-core02.net.reach.com (202.84.144.101) 153.693 ms 153.532 ms 153.558 ms
9 sl-gw28-ana-10-0.sprintlink.net (144.223.58.221) 154.668 ms 154.527 ms 154.519 ms
10 sl-bb21-ana-11-0.sprintlink.net (144.232.1.29) 154.673 ms 154.556 ms 154.557 ms
11 144.232.9.202 (144.232.9.202) 154.999 ms 155.041 ms 155.003 ms
12 xe-0-1-0.r20.lsanca03.us.bb.verio.net (129.250.2.8) 155.185 ms 155.227 ms 155.202 ms
13 p16-1-1-3.r21.dllstx09.us.bb.verio.net (129.250.4.197) 187.766 ms 209.982 ms 213.532 ms
14 p16-0-3-1.r20.asbnva01.us.bb.verio.net (129.250.5.35) 224.726 ms 224.665 ms 224.632 ms
15 mg-1.c00.stngva01.us.da.verio.net (129.250.28.202) 241.044 ms 224.754 ms 224.677 ms
16 161.58.157.61 (161.58.157.61) 224.787 ms 224.797 ms 224.656 ms
17 198.64.153.233 (198.64.153.233) 224.962 ms 224.803 ms 224.788 ms


How do you retrieve the ISP name from only a tracert command without the RIPE forbidden european databases ?

Here you can find verio.net the host but not the full name.

how do you retrieve the good city name and country with the old and not updated Sarangworld project without to use the RIPE forbidden european databases ?

I'm curious to know that to use these method me too.

Can you give more details on your methods for the community ?

You want to apply a big update at the database, then without to corrupt the database with wrong datas it will be good to check your methods.


Teo, information from external sources (RIPE, etc) are used occasionally and to verify information. (yes, information on a few of the pages in this site are obsolete and I figure that's where you probably got that information)

This does not violate RIPE TOS, as is stated by "agreed Internet operational purposes."
bfolkens
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Postby Teo on Mon Sep 19, 2005 3:17 pm

RIPE database copyright:

The information in the RIPE Database is available to the public for agreed
Internet operation purposes, but is under copyright. The copyright statement is:

"Except for agreed Internet operational purposes, no part of this publication
may be reproduced, stored in a retrieval system, or transmitted, in any form or
by any means, electronic, mechanical, recording, or otherwise, without prior
permission of the RIPE NCC on behalf of the copyright holders. Any use of this
material to target advertising or similar activities is explicitly forbidden and
may be prosecuted. The RIPE NCC requests to be notified of any such activities
or suspicions thereof."

http://www.ripe.net/db/copyright.html

bfolkens
This does not violate RIPE TOS, as is stated by "agreed Internet operational purposes."

When you retrieve several millions of IP ... it's not an Internet operational purposes. Same about the reproduced, stored in a retrieval system, or transmitted part. And I don't speak about the target advertising that a lot of people will use with this database (site owner in first).

All geo contents about Europe, the Middle East, Central Asia and African countries located north of the equator are provided by this database only.
All geo content provider pay RIPE to have and use them.

How do you retrieve isp and city info without these databases ?

bfolkens
yes, information on a few of the pages in this site are obsolete and I figure that's where you probably got that information

If you visit each geo data providers you will see in their faq that 8 to 10% of IP data change every month.
In their last 4 years, all the internet landscape have change will all the firm aglomerations.
If you say that you use data from an old and never updated students projects to build an database, please don't say me that it's valid datas.

Image
Teo
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Postby bfolkens on Tue Sep 20, 2005 12:28 pm

When you retrieve several millions of IP ... it's not an Internet operational purposes. Same about the reproduced, stored in a retrieval system, or transmitted part. And I don't speak about the target advertising that a lot of people will use with this database (site owner in first).


As stated earlier, we use the RIPE database (through whois queries) to verify some addresses as they come across for correction - to automatically verify all addresses against the service would be a violation of other TOS agreements they post on their site. Besides, they ensure people don't do this by throttling requests anyway. In any case, to lookup information for Internet operational purposes is what RIPE was designed for, and it is how we are utilizing it and other IANA sources.

How do you retrieve isp and city info without these databases?


That's pretty much the whole point of hostip.info - so if you haven't figured that one out yet I'd suggest you begin by reading the front page of this website.

If you visit each geo data providers you will see in their faq that 8 to 10% of IP data change every month.
In their last 4 years, all the internet landscape have change will all the firm aglomerations.
If you say that you use data from an old and never updated students projects to build an database, please don't say me that it's valid datas.


I'm not sure where the confusion has begun, so I'll state this once more: Hostip.info is a community project - the data comes from the community, is refined by the community, and is then used by the community. The reason why this project stays afloat is because of the contributions of others.

If you can't understand that, then I'm not quite sure what to say.
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Postby Teo on Tue Sep 20, 2005 12:48 pm

I try to say that contents about Europe, the Middle East, Central Asia and African countries located north of the equator are provided directly or indirectly by the RIPE database datas.
If community update the database about city and Isp contents, it's with these datas.

Our the main page of hostip, it's write that it's the internet provider who provide major datas ... :? ... ok so

But Support.scf.dk want to update the content with RIPE forbidden database datas only, then he can't do that.
And more, he use wrong city and country from the old project that will corrupt your internet provider and manually corrected datas.

If you apply his patch, you will have an database wit hhacked datas inside.

And you'll fall on patent software law fron Usa because your server is under Usa and tracert with whois is protected to retrieve geo datas.

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Pars ... /6,684,250
Teo
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